Many thanks to commenter Kristine for remembering that WJCT’s First Coast Forum aired Schools, Science and the State recently. The station has a spot reserved on this page for posting of the video, but I can’t get it to work yet. If anyone does get it to work, please say so in the comments.
Beside that, does anyone know how it went? A debate is developing in the station’s blog’s comments if you want to jump in there. According to some commenters there the show wasn’t all that great:
I was sorely disappointed with the panel and felt the scientific community was not well represented. You’re telling me WJCT couldn’t find a scientist in all of Jacksonville who could properly describe to others what the scientific method is or contrast the scientific definition of “hypothesis†and “theory�?
As one of the panelists (in the first segment) I found I found the whole thing disturbing, disappointing, and depressing. The panelists for each segment were arranged in advance. There was inadequate opportunity to engage/correct the creationist BS and attempting to “discuss” valid science with someone who believes that humans have travelled in excess of light speed (cue Star Trek theme here) or that Darwin caused Hitler to perpetrate the holocaust would have been an exercise in futility. What I wanted to do and couldn’t was challenge their acceptance of ID as science but the opportunity wasn’t there.
As one of the panelists in the first segment I found the whole thing disturbing, distressing, and depressing. The participants for the panel in each segment were arranged in advance and segments were so short that it was difficult to adequately engage and or debunk some of the lunacy. We were unable to present adequate defence of evolutionary biology and I desperately wanted to refute that Darwin caused the holocaust crap (my wife says I did but not loud enough to be heard on the set). The show only confirmed the sad state of science education in Florida when school board members can publicly spout the creationist BS I heard last night. I pity any science teacher in Baker County. My colleagues in Duval certainly have their work cut out for them, too.
We have a lot of work to do.
It says …“Video Availabe April 28st”.
I’d like to say thanks to Kristine as well! 🙂
I haven’t looked at WJCT’s blog just yet, but I don’t think that the commenter that you quoted understands the problem…
“You’re telling me WJCT couldn’t find a scientist in all of Jacksonville who could properly describe to others what the scientific method is or contrast the scientific definition of “hypothesis†and “theoryâ€??”
As for the panel, a few members, including Dave Campbell, DID give clear definitions. During the last panel, everything was summed up by saying that the two “sides” should listen to each other. If they KNOW this, then why don’t they DO it? These people have been told time and again what a theory means in science, what evidence is, and the fact that science doesn’t usually proclaim things to be “fact”.
Granted, they do not have scientific backgrounds, so they may not be expected to fully understand the complexities of the language and its implications, but what they SHOULD be expected to do, especially school board members, is to LISTEN to what the scientists have to say about their own field. Scientists know science. I remember being blown away a couple of years ago at the Clay County school board meeting that dealt with that silly resolution going around. One of the board members finally chiseled down to the fact that the members were having trouble clarifying the resolution because of the ambiguity in their minds of the definition of the word “theory.” The same school board member suggested that they ask the science teachers in the audience for the definition. His suggestion was quickly stricken down by the board, and eventually the board turned to a secretary with a dictionary, and ultimately, David Owens, the superintendent, who claimed to have written the resolution and therefore know the definition of the word. It was despicable.
It’s often argued that scientists are just plain bad at communicating to the public, and while this may be true of some people, it is certainly not true for all. (Not to mention that plenty of non-scientists are bad at communicating to the public as well… It’s a human thing, not a scientist thing.) There are a lot of people who know science who do a fantastic job of presenting their ideas. The real problem lies in other people just plain not listening, or just not WANTING to listen.
Whew, sorry, just frustrated. I can only imagine how the panelists feel.
My Tivo lost signal so I missed the first 15 minutes. I did think Dave’s head was going to explode when Weeks wouldn’t correct her error on the “speed of Light”. She obviously meant speed of sound.
That’s what happens when you don’t even take the time to memorize the Discovery Instinktute’s talking points. Jordan was just as bad going off topic and quote mining Jefferson to dispute the wall of separation of Church and State in the First Amendment of the Constitution.
I’m glad I missed the “Darwin/Hitler” canard… Good grief! Hang in there Dave. I suspect this proposed ID legislation will be dismissed quickly and never see the light of day due to the current fiscal crisis facing every School Board on the sate of Florida.
Sorry for the double post above. Server issues.
Ms Weeks’ talking points were from the ICR, a new earth creationist organization noted for its lack of sophistication and intellectual dishonesty. One correction to Kristine’s post: The Clay County school board refused to consult a dictionary (even though they were available nearby) during the debate which was almost as stupid/arrogant as declining to ask for clarification from the two people who actually wrote the standards who were present. They preferred to decide in ignorance and that is the crux of the problem. These people are totally ignorant of everything about the science involved including the depth of their own ignorance. Kristine is quite right about the communications issue but the scientific side has to remember that we are attempting to discuss this topic with a bunch of closed minds whose world view is based on a book they KNOW is inerrant about all things including science. Anything that contradicts their INTERPRETATION of that book is ignored or dismissed or perceived as a threat. They have come to the point that they are willing to babble total nonsense about things they are completely ignorant of (or that fly in the face of common sense and everyday observation) in an attempt to preserve their view of the world. They are willing to lie, distort, and demean and they won’t be satisfied until we are teaching their radical theology in the science classrooms. It is very difficult to have an intelligent dialog with people like that.
The audio can be found on the lefthand side of the page:
http://www.wjct.org/radio/listen
Direct links:
Part 1: http://www.wjct.org/mp3/APR09/FCFSS1.mp3
Part 2: http://www.wjct.org/mp3/APR09/FCFSS2.mp3
Ok, I listened to about five minutes of this then had to stop, it was giving me a headache (sorry Dave,you were great)
I actually wrote this post at 4.00pm then travelled faster than the speed of light to make it look like I posted it earlier.
If it makes you feel better, consider that a few years ago in Waco, Texas, Bill Nye the Science Guy was booed for saying that the Moon does not generate its own light, since the Moon is “a light” in Genesis, not a reflector.
http://www.examiner.com/x-4112-Skepticism-Examiner~y2009m4d22-Just-shoot-me
So, can anyone confirm that one of the school board members (Weed?) said that NASA now has proven we can travel faster than light?
Anybody got the references? That’s a keeper, is what that is.
That woman who spouted utter nonsense was on a school board? I did not realize that. Horros, but i’
OOPs the server is after me too.
I listened to most of it – was interrupted by my cats demanding dinner. Dave was great – calm and reasonable and clear as usual. Most of the rest were idiots and we did not hear enough from Dave. This brings back the nightmare of the Clay County School board meeting I attended last year. They refused to use the dictionary back then too and did not know what a scientific theory was then either. These people will never evolve and they really need to!
I thought there were too many people speaking and it was too controlled – no answers allowed to creationist garbage and other stupid stuff (the speed of light???) and it was confusing to try and follow all the people they kept bringing in. I did like the interviews they inserted as most of those ordinary folk were reasonable and sensible. They want the public schools to teach science in the science classroom and let them decide what religious training their children should get.
Thanks to Dave for putting up with it! People in Clay County are too scared of the religious right to allow themselves to think.
MaryB